SPSL North = Most dominating division
- Thread starter ndfeda
- Start date
Congratulations on that accomplishment ... It would be nice if in the future, other districts or leagues could have the same opportunity to send multiple members to the final four. Last year I would have guarenteed that Richland and Southridge, both from the BIG 9 would have been there had it not been for the fact that they were forced to meet in the regionals instead of the finals.
Congratulations again and good luck this weekend.
Congratulations again and good luck this weekend.
boo frickin who. it's eastsiders like you that give them all a bad name by always complaining about how your teams have to meet in regionals or the semifinals. i recall the last couple years how eastsiders were saying how it isnt fair that they always have to come to the westside to play in the playoffs. well, tahoma went over to spokane and won both their games, and i didnt hear any complaining at all. buck up
You missed the point completely. Under the current format, it is possible for KingCo to send both of their seeds into the final four. It is possible for Wesco to send all three of their seeds into the final four. It is also possible for the SPSL to send four of their seeds into the final four. It is mathematically impossible for the Eastern Washington schools to send more than one team to the final four, no matter how good their three teams are.
This takes nothing away from the tremedous job that Tahoma did beating Davis and Southridge on the same day after having to wait an extra day to play them because of the rainout.
But the system is not equitable. Hopefully, the WIAA will find a way to even the playing field but I'm not holding my breath.
And just in case you are wondering, I am not from Eastern Washington.
This post was edited on 5/23 4:48 PM by Lucas99if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
This takes nothing away from the tremedous job that Tahoma did beating Davis and Southridge on the same day after having to wait an extra day to play them because of the rainout.
But the system is not equitable. Hopefully, the WIAA will find a way to even the playing field but I'm not holding my breath.
And just in case you are wondering, I am not from Eastern Washington.
This post was edited on 5/23 4:48 PM by Lucas99if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
It's a legit point you bring up. They should send your district's 2 or 3 seed over to the westside for regionals probably.
The SPSL gets an opportunity to do this because their district (West Central) combines with the Narrows and GSHL leagues to make one district. That's a district that takes the best from about 50 4A high schools (21 SPSL, 18-20 Narrows, however many are in the GSHL). So, if the SPSL dominates their district... which usually happens, they have many of the West Central's 8 seeds to state. They usually get 5 or more of those 8 seeds to regionals. This year, 5 made it to Regionals and 3 to the Final Four (all 3 being from the North Division of the SPSL!!). In 2003, 5 of the final 8 were from the SPSL. That's crazy too.
That's the answer to your problem... combine with other leagues (other than the joke that the GSL is) to make your district. But wait, that'd make sense if you could play Couer D'Alene and Boise for Idaho's title, but... it's geography, man. Is the WIAA seriously going to make teams practically fly to E. Wash for a district game? No. So, I guess you could petition the Idaho Interscholastic Association for membership?
The simple truth is that there is just more baseball being played at a high level on the westside. The Eastside does a good job in a few places... especially Tri-Cities, but they just aren't quite at the level that the westside is at. The SPSL has earned it's stripes as THE power league - in all sports, really - over the last 10 years. I'd have to say that the Big 9 is right behind in baseball, though. The others... KingCo 4A, Wesco, GSL, GSHL and Narrows aren't quite there in baseball. They always have the top heavy (one or two legit teams), middle light to weak, bottom horrible - type league.
This post was edited on 5/23 11:24 PM by Wildcat alumif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
It's a legit point you bring up. They should send your district's 2 or 3 seed over to the westside for regionals probably.
The SPSL gets an opportunity to do this because their district (West Central) combines with the Narrows and GSHL leagues to make one district. That's a district that takes the best from about 50 4A high schools (21 SPSL, 18-20 Narrows, however many are in the GSHL). So, if the SPSL dominates their district... which usually happens, they have many of the West Central's 8 seeds to state. They usually get 5 or more of those 8 seeds to regionals. This year, 5 made it to Regionals and 3 to the Final Four (all 3 being from the North Division of the SPSL!!). In 2003, 5 of the final 8 were from the SPSL. That's crazy too.
That's the answer to your problem... combine with other leagues (other than the joke that the GSL is) to make your district. But wait, that'd make sense if you could play Couer D'Alene and Boise for Idaho's title, but... it's geography, man. Is the WIAA seriously going to make teams practically fly to E. Wash for a district game? No. So, I guess you could petition the Idaho Interscholastic Association for membership?
The simple truth is that there is just more baseball being played at a high level on the westside. The Eastside does a good job in a few places... especially Tri-Cities, but they just aren't quite at the level that the westside is at. The SPSL has earned it's stripes as THE power league - in all sports, really - over the last 10 years. I'd have to say that the Big 9 is right behind in baseball, though. The others... KingCo 4A, Wesco, GSL, GSHL and Narrows aren't quite there in baseball. They always have the top heavy (one or two legit teams), middle light to weak, bottom horrible - type league.
This post was edited on 5/23 11:24 PM by Wildcat alumif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
"but the SPSL is clearly the best over time"
You clearly have not done your homework. Let's make a couple of assumptions that hopefully we can agree on. Let's say "over time" means ten years. And since this is a state tournament that we're talking about, let's assume that the two teams in the championship game are the dominant teams in all of the respective leagues. Given that, here are the results from the last ten championship games as listed on the WIAA site:
4A Baseball
Year Champion Runner Up Score
2005 Richland Skyline 2-1
2004 Southridge Kentwood 6-4
2003 South Kitsap Federal Way 6-3
2002 Woodinville Federal Way 6-1
2001 Federal Way North Central 4-0
2000 Kentwood Kelso 10-2
1999 Richland Hudson's Bay 5-4
1998 Snohomish Sehome 13-4
1997 Newport (Bellevue) Kennewick 8-0
1996 South Kitsap Richland 13-4
Of the 20 teams in the championship games, here is the breakdown by league:
Big 9 5 teams
SPSL 5 teams
KingCo 3 teams
Narrows 2 teams
GSHL 2 teams
Wesco 2 teams
GSL 1 team
Since the Big 9 and GSL consist of the Eastern Washington bracket, they have sent the most teams to the championship game. So, "clearly, the SPSL is not the best over time". As for state champions, the Big 9 leads with 3, followed by Narrows, KingCo and SPSL with 2, and Wesco with 1.
"but the SPSL is clearly the best over time"
You clearly have not done your homework. Let's make a couple of assumptions that hopefully we can agree on. Let's say "over time" means ten years. And since this is a state tournament that we're talking about, let's assume that the two teams in the championship game are the dominant teams in all of the respective leagues. Given that, here are the results from the last ten championship games as listed on the WIAA site:
4A Baseball
Year Champion Runner Up Score
2005 Richland Skyline 2-1
2004 Southridge Kentwood 6-4
2003 South Kitsap Federal Way 6-3
2002 Woodinville Federal Way 6-1
2001 Federal Way North Central 4-0
2000 Kentwood Kelso 10-2
1999 Richland Hudson's Bay 5-4
1998 Snohomish Sehome 13-4
1997 Newport (Bellevue) Kennewick 8-0
1996 South Kitsap Richland 13-4
Of the 20 teams in the championship games, here is the breakdown by league:
Big 9 5 teams
SPSL 5 teams
KingCo 3 teams
Narrows 2 teams
GSHL 2 teams
Wesco 2 teams
GSL 1 team
Since the Big 9 and GSL consist of the Eastern Washington bracket, they have sent the most teams to the championship game. So, "clearly, the SPSL is not the best over time". As for state champions, the Big 9 leads with 3, followed by Narrows, KingCo and SPSL with 2, and Wesco with 1.
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
Continuing from my previous post since I ran out of room:
My point, again, is that given the limitations of the Eastern Washington teams to enter only one team into the semifinals, I would say they have outperformed everyone else in the state over the last ten years.
I have no idea where you were going with that Idaho thing, but it makes no sense.
I still maintain that the only way the WIAA is going to produce the best competition at state is to alter the format to include the very best teams no matter where they come from.
And I repeat, I am from Western Wsshington. I was born and raised in the Seattle area, am an alum of the UW and have no particular dog in this fight
This post was edited on 5/24 10:43 AM by Lucas99if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Continuing from my previous post since I ran out of room:
My point, again, is that given the limitations of the Eastern Washington teams to enter only one team into the semifinals, I would say they have outperformed everyone else in the state over the last ten years.
I have no idea where you were going with that Idaho thing, but it makes no sense.
I still maintain that the only way the WIAA is going to produce the best competition at state is to alter the format to include the very best teams no matter where they come from.
And I repeat, I am from Western Wsshington. I was born and raised in the Seattle area, am an alum of the UW and have no particular dog in this fight
This post was edited on 5/24 10:43 AM by Lucas99if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
4A: of the 91 4A teams in WA: 20 from East and 71 from West. 16 teams made it to Regionals. 3 from East and 13 from West. 15% East made it. 18% West made it. I'm not sure it could be more fair as far as representation from areas. (Although I agree with your point as far as number teams that can make the final four from each league.)
But from a fan and excitement point of view it might be fun to have the State divided into 4 areas and always have a representative from each of the four areas in the final four.
Let's face it, luck, draw of pitcher you face, weather, and location play a big part in who makes it to the final four anyway. That, along with transfers in and out of schools.
This post was edited on 5/24 12:59 PM by ygyoif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
4A: of the 91 4A teams in WA: 20 from East and 71 from West. 16 teams made it to Regionals. 3 from East and 13 from West. 15% East made it. 18% West made it. I'm not sure it could be more fair as far as representation from areas. (Although I agree with your point as far as number teams that can make the final four from each league.)
But from a fan and excitement point of view it might be fun to have the State divided into 4 areas and always have a representative from each of the four areas in the final four.
Let's face it, luck, draw of pitcher you face, weather, and location play a big part in who makes it to the final four anyway. That, along with transfers in and out of schools.
This post was edited on 5/24 12:59 PM by ygyoif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
Ok... maybe the word "clearly" was excessive... but wasn't my summary in the last paragraph about each league pretty accurate compared to your breakdown by league? I think you kind of helped make my point... some of that has changed alot now, too. In the late 90's, there were KingCo teams on your list that are now 3A. The 3A KingCo is probably better than the 4A KingCo, now.
Good stuff you wrote.
Ok... maybe the word "clearly" was excessive... but wasn't my summary in the last paragraph about each league pretty accurate compared to your breakdown by league? I think you kind of helped make my point... some of that has changed alot now, too. In the late 90's, there were KingCo teams on your list that are now 3A. The 3A KingCo is probably better than the 4A KingCo, now.
Good stuff you wrote.
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
since SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco are all in western washington we can count those as one since you counted GSL and Big 9 as one. so western washington has sent 12 teams to the championship games, whereas eastern washington has sent 8. as for state championships western washington leads with 7 and the Big 9 with 3. So if you can group the Big 9 and GSL as 1, then i dont see why you cant group the SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco as one as well.
since SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco are all in western washington we can count those as one since you counted GSL and Big 9 as one. so western washington has sent 12 teams to the championship games, whereas eastern washington has sent 8. as for state championships western washington leads with 7 and the Big 9 with 3. So if you can group the Big 9 and GSL as 1, then i dont see why you cant group the SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco as one as well.
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
Ok lets go back a little bit and look at what is going on this year. Kentwood is in the state semi's, Auburn is as well, oh look there is Tahoma joining them along with Jackson from the Westco.
Stats:
4 of 4 teams from western washington
0 of 4 teams from eastern washington
2 of 357 people from eastern washington that are pissed that they're baseball teams arn't good
1 of 1 person amazed that 3 of 4 teams from the same DIVISION are in the state semi finals (a feat that has never happpend)
Conclusion: Eastern washington teams had an off year, which is to say that isn't surprising at all. And overall in all sports the SPSL is hands down the best conference in the state.
Ok lets go back a little bit and look at what is going on this year. Kentwood is in the state semi's, Auburn is as well, oh look there is Tahoma joining them along with Jackson from the Westco.
Stats:
4 of 4 teams from western washington
0 of 4 teams from eastern washington
2 of 357 people from eastern washington that are pissed that they're baseball teams arn't good
1 of 1 person amazed that 3 of 4 teams from the same DIVISION are in the state semi finals (a feat that has never happpend)
Conclusion: Eastern washington teams had an off year, which is to say that isn't surprising at all. And overall in all sports the SPSL is hands down the best conference in the state.
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
"So if you can group the Big 9 and GSL as 1, then i dont see why you cant group the SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco as one as well."
Are you actually serious? I was referring to the Big 9 and GSL as one regional. As we all know, there are three regionals on the west side.
3 does not equal 1, but I'm sure you know that.
"So if you can group the Big 9 and GSL as 1, then i dont see why you cant group the SPSL, Kingco, Narrows, and Wesco as one as well."
Are you actually serious? I was referring to the Big 9 and GSL as one regional. As we all know, there are three regionals on the west side.
3 does not equal 1, but I'm sure you know that.
Re: Lucas99 has a point... but the SPSL is clearly the best over time.
Hey Wildcat, I enjoyed sparring with you. Your point about the various depths of the leagues may be valid, but I am not doing any more digging around for team or league records. It is time to watch some terrific baseball. Friday and Saturday can't come soon enough. See you at Safeco!
Hey Wildcat, I enjoyed sparring with you. Your point about the various depths of the leagues may be valid, but I am not doing any more digging around for team or league records. It is time to watch some terrific baseball. Friday and Saturday can't come soon enough. See you at Safeco!
Who cares?
Big effing deal on which league is "best", that's a point which will NEVER be resolved to a real, unchallenged point (too many variables-- luck of the draw is the most telling).
To the devil with false modesty! Kentwood, Auburn, Tahoma, and Jackson are at Safeco for many reasons...but you're THERE...so enjoy!
Big effing deal on which league is "best", that's a point which will NEVER be resolved to a real, unchallenged point (too many variables-- luck of the draw is the most telling).
To the devil with false modesty! Kentwood, Auburn, Tahoma, and Jackson are at Safeco for many reasons...but you're THERE...so enjoy!
Re: Who cares?
but seriously, no other league has the credentials in all sports like the SPSL, this years baseball final four, Last years Basketball Championship game, or the fact that KW, and Curtis are possibly the best 2 football programs in recent memory??? I'll accept an argument individually, for example: Big 9 in football, Narrows in basketball, Kingco or Wesco in baseball, but the whole package???...not even an argument to be had.
This post was edited on 5/25 12:59 PM by 253vetif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
but seriously, no other league has the credentials in all sports like the SPSL, this years baseball final four, Last years Basketball Championship game, or the fact that KW, and Curtis are possibly the best 2 football programs in recent memory??? I'll accept an argument individually, for example: Big 9 in football, Narrows in basketball, Kingco or Wesco in baseball, but the whole package???...not even an argument to be had.
This post was edited on 5/25 12:59 PM by 253vetif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
Re: Who cares?
:
yawn)::
Who's arguing, and why would they?...the SPSL is the largest fraternity in the world with some of the most populated campuses, and have the bonus of an extremely wide geography of gifted athletes.
The fact that the league pretty much slays all others, overall, in every sport-- is expected, and certainly not a surprise at all!
:
yawn):: Who's arguing, and why would they?...the SPSL is the largest fraternity in the world with some of the most populated campuses, and have the bonus of an extremely wide geography of gifted athletes.
The fact that the league pretty much slays all others, overall, in every sport-- is expected, and certainly not a surprise at all!
Re: Who cares?
It is kind of interesting that you bring up populated campuses... Mr South K No, I hear what you are saying though... boring conversation.
It is kind of interesting that you bring up populated campuses... Mr South K
No, I hear what you are saying though... boring conversation.Re: Who cares?
and... ::yawning again:: SK's ceratinly won its share and has slotted itself into state more than any mind can imagine, like they should have with 2,500 peeps (don't get me started, cuz I'll win :: yawn, stretch :, BUT the point of conversation here is the overall LEAGUE, not any specific school...
Tiny Bellarmine Prep of the Narrows League (800 souls) being the overall 4A sports champs still cracks me up, and proves a point!
and... ::yawning again:: SK's ceratinly won its share and has slotted itself into state more than any mind can imagine, like they should have with 2,500 peeps (don't get me started, cuz I'll win :: yawn, stretch :
, BUT the point of conversation here is the overall LEAGUE, not any specific school... Tiny Bellarmine Prep of the Narrows League (800 souls) being the overall 4A sports champs still cracks me up, and proves a point!
Re: Who cares?
If I could borrow a line for a moment... "who's arguing?" -- I'm not. I definitely wouldn't want to get you started and lose an argument.
I understood what you meant... I just thought it was amusing for a moment. You are right about what you said.
If I could borrow a line for a moment... "who's arguing?" -- I'm not. I definitely wouldn't want to get you started and lose an argument.
I understood what you meant... I just thought it was amusing for a moment. You are right about what you said.