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Bracket - Correct me if I am missing something
- Thread starter Smallpox
- Start date
The Mark Morris win over WFWest sure changed the landscape of the 'West Side' half of the bracket. It looks like the bracket turned out as it should have in my mind. I was wrong in my earlier posts about the WIAA. At least this year, I can't argue.
From what I see, Deer Park plays Othello, and Pullman plays Prosser. That may be swapped.
From what I see, Deer Park plays Othello, and Pullman plays Prosser. That may be swapped.
From what I heard Deer Park was not even one of the four teams that tied for the GNL title....EV and WV of Spokane, along with Cheney and Pullman all tied for GNL title at 4-2. ...and in the 4-way head to head tie-breaker, Pullman is the #1 seed and hosts Prosser and Cheney is the #2 seed and travels to play Othello....Thats from the Spokane paper...
Thank you Sport, I was going off of what I saw a week ago, but the GNL was an absolute mess. Again, thanks for the clarification.
East Valley Spokane is doing some kind of appeal to the 4 way tie breaker system to their league on Monday.
Welcome to the beauty of sharing the #1 seed between two leagues. No better way to do it really.
For the first time in quite awhile, it looks like the 'hypothetical' top four teams (Othello, Lynden, Tumwater, and Captial) are spread into the four quarter brackets.
This post was edited on 11/3 12:10 PM by football_fever3
For the first time in quite awhile, it looks like the 'hypothetical' top four teams (Othello, Lynden, Tumwater, and Captial) are spread into the four quarter brackets.
This post was edited on 11/3 12:10 PM by football_fever3
Great draw if you're Burlington, Orting, Sumner or Kingston. Rough draw if you're Mark Morris, Lynden, Lakewood or Capital. Two 4-loss teams get to play each other in the first round (Orting and BE) while two 1-loss teams play each other (MM and Lynden). You'd think there's got to be some better way to seed the playoffs to make the matchups have a little more sense to them.
District 3 gets 5 teams to play for the state championship - I will be very surprised if one makes the semifinals.
District 3 gets 5 teams to play for the state championship - I will be very surprised if one makes the semifinals.
one third bro, not two thirds...regardless, all the teams in District 3 always seem to be average at best....that is why a ranking thing like Oregon does might be the best way to go about it. You take District 3 and District 8 (GNL) and they get 7 seeds between them? And how many are ranked in the top 10?? Ya,,,,just saying my opinion on the matter is all!!
Not to quibble, but Burlington has 3 losses not four. I agree though that some commen sense should be used in seeding after play-ins. As a fan I can see for instance that Lynden vs Orting & Burlington vs Mark Morris or Lakewood vs Bremerton & ATM vs Capital better reflects regular season performance in seeding. I'm not going to say Burlington has an easy draw though, because I'm sure Orting feels they have the easy draw.
I think it's probably fair that they get the same ratio of teams represented at state, and 5/16 is pretty close to 1/3. But I think there should be some better way to determine seeding. Maybe the 16 teams can be chosen the same way as now, but some of these first round matchups are very indicative of a system that isn't working. Just look at the classification losses between some of these matchups.
Mark Morris and Lynden both have not lost a single game to a 2A opponent all year long. Both are undefeated in conference play, yet both are relegated to the #2 seed in their district without losing a single determining game. Mark Morris is somehow deemed weaker than Orting, who has 4 2A losses on the year and had a losing record in conference play, but Burlington-Edison, the #3 seed from the NWC (2 2A losses and 3 conference losses) gets to play them instead.
There has got to be a better way to do this. If Mark Morris and Lynden both would have won their first non-conference game they would be undefeated this year and still playing this matchup. Lakewood is undefeated in 2A play and gets to play Capital, whose only 2A loss is to Tumwater (undefeated in 2A play). I'm with a poster above me. It's time to go to put a little subjectivity in here and find some way to rank these teams 1-16 (or maybe 1-12 on the west side and 1-4 on the east) instead of having 2 of the top 7 teams in state go home after the first round.
At least Lynden/MM, Lakewood/Capital, Tumwater and Othello/Prosser are all in different quarters of the bracket. If the eventual champion isn't one of those 7 teams I will be incredibly surprised...
Mark Morris and Lynden both have not lost a single game to a 2A opponent all year long. Both are undefeated in conference play, yet both are relegated to the #2 seed in their district without losing a single determining game. Mark Morris is somehow deemed weaker than Orting, who has 4 2A losses on the year and had a losing record in conference play, but Burlington-Edison, the #3 seed from the NWC (2 2A losses and 3 conference losses) gets to play them instead.
There has got to be a better way to do this. If Mark Morris and Lynden both would have won their first non-conference game they would be undefeated this year and still playing this matchup. Lakewood is undefeated in 2A play and gets to play Capital, whose only 2A loss is to Tumwater (undefeated in 2A play). I'm with a poster above me. It's time to go to put a little subjectivity in here and find some way to rank these teams 1-16 (or maybe 1-12 on the west side and 1-4 on the east) instead of having 2 of the top 7 teams in state go home after the first round.
At least Lynden/MM, Lakewood/Capital, Tumwater and Othello/Prosser are all in different quarters of the bracket. If the eventual champion isn't one of those 7 teams I will be incredibly surprised...
I remember last year what an injustice it was that Tumwater was playing Archbishop Murphy in the first round. Clearly two of the top four 2A teams and a rematch of the 2010 state championship to boot! Clearly this was a match that needed to be in the semi's at the minimum. Of course, ATM won by 49 and it didn't seem like such a big deal in the aftermath.
There's just no way to guarantee fair representation in the seeding process if it's using human judgement to seed the top 16 teams. These things are cyclical guys. The KingCo conference was not a good football conference throughout the 1990's based on state playoff results, and the SPSL was the dominant force. Now however, they've flip-flopped. Elma was a dominant 2A program in the late 90's early 2000's, now they're a weak 1A program. Pre-conceived notions about who you "think" is best each year is impossible for seeding to be done fairly. No one, and I mean no one, has watched the game film of the 16 teams playing and can make a fair judgement about who ought to be placed where. Computer systems are nice, but their not infallible, ask the BCS folks, who have far greater technology available than we do. The bracket has zero "#1" seeds playing other "#1" seeds. The WIAA could re-shuffle which districts face which districts in the first round, but that has to be determined before the 16 teams are determined, and you have to think about who receives home-field advantage,etc...
I'm just not a big fan of "re-seeding" teams into the playoffs based on peoples rankings and perceived "best" teams in the state. You are making a judgement. In my estimation, the best team usually wins the state championship each year, regardless of their path to that point.
I'm just not a big fan of "re-seeding" teams into the playoffs based on peoples rankings and perceived "best" teams in the state. You are making a judgement. In my estimation, the best team usually wins the state championship each year, regardless of their path to that point.
I am not arguing either way, but I think the beef seems to be that a team that does well in the reg. season has to play another team that had a great reg. season right away. Perhaps, that makes the reg. season of lesser value. Generally in sports the teams that have better reg. season records draw lower seeded opponents. Of course that doesn't mean the high seeded teams always win their 1st round game.
I can see it both ways and complaints from both sides. Just not sure that there is a cure all that will make everyone happy.
I can see it both ways and complaints from both sides. Just not sure that there is a cure all that will make everyone happy.
Bottom line, if everyone is playing for a state title, you have to beat great teams at some point. If two great teams play in round one, one gets beat and can't then make the claim they were th best team in th state. I don't think it matters that you lasted an extra round or two.
That is a good point other than it doesn't reward your team for playing so well in the regular season. Obviously the WIAA is trying to seed them somewhat off the reg. season (hence #1 and #2 seeds), but sometimes it seems to get messed up. But, to go out and say you have to play the best at some point seems to be missing the point of the reg. season and winning your league.
On the other hand leagues are not even, so that causes seeding issues.
Oh, well, looking forward to this weekend,
On the other hand leagues are not even, so that causes seeding issues.
Oh, well, looking forward to this weekend,
I disagree completely Warrant. I got word that Lynden was a bit bummed that they did not get to play Capital this week.
The WIAA has a rough job, no doubt. That said, when you look at the past few years, it is the same seeding every year. You have district 3 playing each other and getting through in the 1st round, and you have district 1 and 4 (year by year the best two leagues in the state) knocking each other out in the 1st round. At the same time, and I know I am biased, but the #1 NWC team should honestly blow off a game each year and take the #2 or #3 seed (depending on the seeding of that district). For example, BE was the 2nd best team in the NWC (arguably) and got Orting in the first round. There is no easy answer, I get that, but like SmallPox said, reward a regular season, not punish.
That said, looking forward to this weekend as well.
That said, looking forward to this weekend as well.
Have to add, the EvCo #1 gets a buy into the playoffs, as well as #1 seed, meanwhile, the NWC#1 gets a "playin crossover" and an "every other year" #1 seed.
I am not sure if the EvCo gets a buy thing was sarcastic, but they had to play a cross-over game too!
I think I would have preferred playing Lynden this week too, as opposed to, potentially, in the T-dome. I'd much rather face them in the elements than a controlled field (dome, inside, turf, etc.) with their offense.
I look forward to the next few weeks!
I think I would have preferred playing Lynden this week too, as opposed to, potentially, in the T-dome. I'd much rather face them in the elements than a controlled field (dome, inside, turf, etc.) with their offense.
I look forward to the next few weeks!
From what it sounds like, there was a 4 way tie for 1st place in the GNL. The tiebreaker went to head to head records amongst the four teams, leaving Pullman and Cheney the last two standing. East Valley (one of the three tying) is appealing the tiebreak process. The appeal goes in today. (If anyone knows more than this, let me know, I am just going by what has been posted on other threads).
East Valley lost its appeal, so Othello plays Cheney and Prosser plays Pullman.
Anyone know when and where the Archbishop Murphy game will be played?
Anyone know when and where the Archbishop Murphy game will be played?
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